We are having difficulties establishing boundaries with my daughter's fraternal birth grandparents. We have an open adoption in which we promised the birthmother and the birthfather that we would send periodic updates via e-mail and set up a visit once a year. The birthfather's parents do not like this agreement, and instead have tried their best to force themselves into our lives. They have found out where we live, and where we go to church. They want to have frequent visits (any time they want, but at least weekly) They even told us they would become members of our church so they could come find us every week in church. They decided (even though we asked them not to) that they want both our kids to call them "Grandma" and "Grandpa" and have been sending gifts to both of our children signed and even sometimes monogrammed with those names. I am absolutely overwrought with anxiety about what these people have said, done, and plan to do! We have our annual "scheduled" visit coming up Thanksgiving Weekend. I am absolutely dreading it!!!!! We have asked the birthfather to meet with my husband and I the day before the visit, so that we could "clear up a few things". The thing is, this birthfather is a good kid ....and we don't want to upset him. We are eternally grateful to he and the birthmother for choosing us to be her parents....however....we NEED HIS PARENTS TO BACK OFF!!!!! Any suggestions on how to accomplish this while preserving our relationship with the birthfather would be GREATLY appreciated!
We are having difficulties establishing boundaries with my daughter's fraternal birth grandparents.
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Wow! A lot of responses!
Wow! A lot of responses! Thanks to everyone who has offered advice...all of which I greatly appreciate and have taken to heart.
In answer to some of your questions, after we met the birthfather and birthmother, we then visited with her parents and then his parents. (This was all arranged before our little girl was born.) At those visits, the birthmother and the birthfather (respectively) explained to their parents that they had asked, and we had agreed to, one visit a year. So, yes, both sets of birthgrandparents were aware of our agreement of contact with the birthparents before the baby was born. The birthfather's parents...at the time, seemed relieved that they didn't have to wait until she was 18 to have contact with her, which we assured them was not the case...because we promised the one visit a year as well as updates and pictures via e-mail. They had asked at that initial visit what our little girl would call them. We had told them that we were not comfortable with her calling them "Grandma" and "Grandpa" and that we would prefer their first names or perhaps a nickname that was special to them. His mother seemed excited at the prospect of coming up with a name for herself and her husband. But, yes, they were told from the very beginning, before the baby was born, what kind of contact had been agreed upon, as well as the fact that we did not want them to call themselves "Grandma" and "Grandpa". We also had not shared our last name or address with any of the birthfamilies, as per the instructions of the agency.
THEN...at the hospital....the birthfather's parents totally changed their tune! I know that emotions were high. I know that this was difficult for them. Especially considering that at the hospital the birthmother's parents and the birthfather's parents started fighting and continued to fight long after the baby was born. OH WAS IT UGLY!!!!! It was the Hatfields and the McCoys!!!!! And those poor birthparents were caught in the middle!! And so were my husband and myself.
When his parents were not fighting with her parents, they started "working" on us to agree to things we did not want to do. I felt so cornered and put on the spot...all I could say was, "we have agreed to one visit a year and periodic updates"...repeating our agreement with the birthparents over and over again. They would reply things like, "that may be the agreement now, but that will change because we are your new best friends." His father kept saying over and over again, "Don't worry, we'll find you!". His mother kept talking about finding us at our church every week and even changing their membership to our church. I was absolutely terrified the more they kept on going. You see...I had been stalked in college and my stalker had said similar things to me.
What did not help was when, 3 days later, the counsellor at the adoption agency called to tell me that his parents had found our where we lived. I was absolutely beside myself. I was afraid to leave my house. I was afraid to go to church. I truly believed that they were stalking (or at least intending to) us! I called the birthfather and shared my concerns with him and he promised to talk to his parents.
I guess his talk did help a little, because they have not shown up at church or on my doorstep. However, they continue with the presents to both our children and calling themselves "Grandma" and "Grandpa". Now...I read all of your comments and I know that some of you have close relationships with your children's birthgrandparents. However.....we are NOT comfortable with these people and are NOT comfortable with our daughter and our son calling them those terms of endearment.....ESPECIALLY when they are doing it against our wishes. We specifically asked them not to and the fact that they are NOT respecting our wishes is what is really upsetting to me.
Also in answer to a question that someone asked...our little girl is 21 months. We've had 2 visits with the birthfamilies, the 3rd one is coming up. So, we're still pretty new at this. We have a good relationship with the birthmother and her parents, and I am actually looking forward to seeing them. We have a good relationship with the birthfather. At our previous 2 visits, the birthfather, bless his heart, couldn't even hold the baby because his mother wouldn't let him. She would grab her away from whoever was holding her and kiss her from head to toe. His parents would also give us instructions on how to take care of her...like I was her babysitter and not her mother!!!
What has happened since the last visit is this: I wrote his mother a letter and, as nicely as I could, I respectfully requested that she send gifts only on special occasions, ie: Christmas, birthdays. (She had been sending gifts almost every month.) And that we would like her to come up with another name to call herself and her husband, other than "Grandma" and "Grandpa", as we had discussed at our first meeting. Her response was very hateful. She said that whether I liked it or not, she was the grandmother and she was going to act like it.
However....the presents slowed down considerably.
So...now...the 3rd meeting will be happening next week. One of the many things I am anxious about is the fact that his mother cannot control her emotions. Last year, upon seeing us, she came and snatched the baby out of my arms in almost a barbaric manner. My little girl, at 21 months, is older, her personality is really coming out...and she is shy of adults. She will freak out if this woman does that again! And quite frankly...I might too.
The thing of it is....it isn't that I don't want our little girl to have a relationship with her birthgrandparents......it's that I don't want that relationship FORCED upon us. See what I mean? My goal is that his parents will back off and give us some space to relax and let the relationship "kindle" (for lack of a better word). They pushed us too far and we are still recoiling from it.
And..yes.. I've contacted the agency for intervention. They have refused.
Anyway...again thanks to all of you for your input. Wish me luck next week!
And.....Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. If you are travelling..be safe!
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First of all --huge, huge
First of all --huge, huge hugs to you. I can see that this has been challenging and stressful -- and for good reason! I think that any open adoption requires us to stretch and grow emotionally in ways that many people are never called to do. So I respect and admire you for your courage and strength so far.
Now that you've shared a little more of the details I understand where you are coming from so much better.
I know I am coming from what may seem like a more radical position -- please remember that I too am an adoptive parent in a very open adoption. And it has NOT been easy. It's been terrifying and awful and I twice lost my daughter back to her first mom before the adoption was finalized. TWICE. And yet, I am still open to them having a relationship now. So my opinions come from a place that is intimately aware of how painful and scary it is to be in your position.
After reading and re-reading your post, four things came to mind. In no particular order:
Finally, I am just struck by your closing thoughts:
"The thing of it is....it isn't that I don't want our little girl to have a relationship with her birthgrandparents......it's that I don't want that relationship FORCED upon us. See what I mean? My goal is that his parents will back off and give us some space to relax and let the relationship "kindle" (for lack of a better word). They pushed us too far and we are still recoiling from it. "
I empathize. I really do. But re-read these words. It's about how *you* are feeling. All valid ways to feel. I am not trying to change the way you feel. I am, however, encouraging -- challenging -- you not let these feelings have to much influence on the decisions you make about this relationship. Because, as I said before: it's not really about you. It's about your daughter.
Excellent response by
Excellent response by Ibex.
The only thing I want to add is... they are feeling the same way you are. You don't want things forced on you (understandably!) They don't want things forced on them, either--which is what has happened to them. They lost their grandchild to adoption, and it was not their decision to make. They were told they could not define themselves/use the Grandma and Grandpa title, and there was (from what I can tell of your description) no conversation or willingness to consider allowing them those titles.
Oh, also... different families communicate in different ways. It may be normal in their family to be sort of pushy. Seriously. Think back to when you got married. Did you and your hubby have to take into consideration each others' different upbringings, familial styles, communication methods? I know for my husband and me, silence after a statement/question indicates consent, in my hubby's mind. In my mind, it indicates just that the person is thinking about the request. See what I mean? The same action means something very different to each of us. That is just an example, but... it might be normal, in their family, to be sort of pushy and exuberant, to just send presents whenever, etc. Not saying that's definitely what this is--it could be a reaction to their loss, insecurity of their roles, and their lack of control. In fact I'd bet on it that that's a huge part of it. But it could be a mixture of both things--different ways of communicating/being plus the reaction to the adoption loss.
I agree about getting a third party to mediate. And also would echo the suggestion (gently) to seek out some counseling regarding the memories of being stalked that this is bringing up for you. It might help you feel much better.
Good luck.
Wow, Nicole, this line,
Wow, Nicole, this line, "they are feeling the same way you are. You don't want things forced on you (understandably!) They don't want things forced on them, either--which is what has happened to them. They lost their grandchild to adoption, and it was not their decision to make" is such a great reminder. Thanks for saying it!!!
I see what you all are
I see what you all are saying. We had told them at the beginning that we didn't feel comfortable with them being called "Grandma" and "Grandpa" because that is what our son calls my husband's parents, (and what our daughter will call them when she starts talking.) We'll be talking about this subject with the birthfather before our next meeting. We would really prefer that they come up with another nickname to reduce confusion...and because we asked them nicely several times.
I did see a counsellor at the beginning of all of this, when I first suspected the birthgrandparents were stalking us. (He was also an adoptive father of 5) He was very concerned about our safety and had me go speak to the director of the agency where we adopted. Which I did. He seemed concerned as well...but did nothing.
The thing of it is...the birthfather's parents are stalking us. They have been spotted on numerous occasions slowing driving by our home, or parked slightly up the street, spying on our home. Our neighbors have even called the police, but they left right before the police arrived. They have also been spotted outside of my son's school.
These facts alone are terrifying to me, and I'm sure magnified because I've been stalked before. Our attorney wants us to get a protective order against them. I first want to talk to the birthfather and let him know what his parents are doing. (I really don't think he knows because he is away at college.)
I get what you are saying about it is all about our daughter and to not consider my feelings. But...I have this one argument. If I feel extreme anxiety going into these visits...she'll pick up on it and that, in turn, can effect how she feels about them. I don't want to bias her. Which, is why we're having this meeting with the birthfather. I'm going to be talking to him about our goals for the future...which is basically that these visits will be pleasant/anxiety-free.( I'm sure even his parents cannot argue with that!) I know what would help me be anxiety-free (for them to stop stalking us and be respectful to us when we see them...for starters), but that their reply would be altogether different. I want boundaries to protect my family. This spying on us has got to stop! I know you've suggested talking to them gently. But, unfortunately...we have tried, and "gentle" doesn't work.
There in lies my conflict. I am thinking of the future and what my little girl will want to know and if/and what kind of relationship she would want with her birthfamily. But do I expose my family (son included) to people who stalk, verbally abuse my husband and me, and bully us?
"But do I expose my family
"But do I expose my family (son included) to people who stalk, verbally abuse my husband and me, and bully us?"
If that is what is going on -- then of course the answer is no! If that is what is going on -- then my lengthy post to you really is irrelevant. Regardless of *who* they are in relation to your family -- no one has the right to treat you like that. Then, in my mind, it ceases to be an issue specific to adoption -- it's just about protecting your family from hurtful people.
I really do wish you the best of luck with this.
Thanks for the support! I
Thanks for the support! I know it seems like a "no brainer" question of "do I expose my family to ..." what these people have put us through. But I keep thinking of our initial meeting with them...the one that went right. They seemed like such nice, normal people. A good Christian family who had a very good, intelligent son who made a mistake with a girl, but was doing the right thing by finding the perfect family to raise his little girl. That is how they impressed us. It was only after the baby was born that his mother went nuts. I've been giving her the benefit of the doubt that her actions have been because of her grief.
But...you're right...after the stalking, the verbal abuse she's been giving me. I cannot subject my kids to it. But..I am giving them one last chance. At this meeting with the birthfather in a few days, I'm going to let him know that this behavior from his parents can no longer be tolerated. If they do not treat us respectfully the following day, or if they continue to stalk us at our home, or my son's school....they will no longer be welcome at the visits.
You know...that makes me feel so much better just writing that!
It isn't clear how long
It isn't clear how long you have been in an open relationship with this birth family so I am not sure over what period these relationships have evolved. I want to support your desire to use this time to reestablish better boundaries, but I would caution against letting the birth grandparents know directly how irritated/distressed you are right now. It sounds like the their invasiveness has reached a bit of a crisis point and of course, you want to push back, but for the benefit of the ongoing relationship I suggest you discuss with your partner what would be acceptable kinds of contact: how often, under what circumstances. What were your expectations in the beginning and when did it start to be too much? Have you had frank discussions with them about the roles they might have with you and your daughter? These are hard conversations to have, but so important to creating boundaries that work first and foremost for you as the adoptive family. Even scheduling visits at a special holiday time might make things more loaded than they need to be. It can be a tightrope to walk at times, but remembering why you are doing this can always help. You hope for your child to know more of who they are and feel connected to the families that gave her life, but in a way that allows you to feel secure in your boundaries
These grandparents may never have been fully educated about their roles and responsibilities including to always making sure that visits/contact have been agreed upon in advance. Brenda Romanchik's brochure on Rights and Responsibilities of Birth Parents and their families might be excellent resource for them. They may have a myriad of issues of unresolved grief on their part that is getting played out by trying to maintain unrealistic contact and they are very unclear about what they can/should expect. I would want to know more: Is this their first grandchild? What kind of contact did you have in the beginning and what agreements were made? Does the BF live close also? The adoption agency might have a role to play whereat least as support to you as you decide how to proceed. Calling them in to mediate might make it seem that is a feud that needs to have a third party involved. I would start at the first intervention as you suggested: talking with BF and explaining how it feels to you both, at the same time acknowledging what you
do
value about the relationship with the BGP.
The most important thing is to remember that although this feels very badly right now, how you resolve the differences can mean a lot for the future of the relationships with BF and his parents. I agree that your "eternal gratefulness" should not lessen in any way your absolute right to set up boundaries that work for you. That is a good way to talk about it with them: You
want
to have them in your child's life in some way, they
are
important to you and will be to your daughter. However, in order to help these relationships work for now and the future, there needs to be a better understanding about everyone's expectations and ability to manage the issues that come up with such geographical closeness.
Good luck!!
Excellent response.
Excellent response.
Okay -- I had 2 very
Okay -- I had 2 very separate and contradictory responses to reading this. First, let me say that I am an adoptive parent in a very open adoption. We have contact with my daughter's first mom, as well as aunts and cousins and siblings, etc.
My first response really was -- why are you so upset about the amount of contact they want? Why can't they be Gramma and Grampa too? Lots of kids have more than 2 sets of Grandparents due to having parents that divorce and remarry. They seem to be embracing your whole family with warmth and welcome -- not just fixating on their biological grandchild, right? What are your concerns about them being more involved?
And then I remembered how I felt in the early days of our adoption. Every bit of contact with my daughter's first family was so scary and fraught with anxiety and emotion. It was so stressful. So overwhelming. And there were few [or no] models to look to in establishing these new relationships. I chose to think of it as extended family. And so far [3 years into the relationships] I really have few regrets.
So, I do empathize with your feelings -- but without hearing a good *reason* for you to be so freaked by their [natural] desire to be part of your lives -- I urge you to look beyond your first response and see what might be possible. It takes a lot of courage and strength. But I can't really see the downside for your kids.
I don't think it's their
I don't think it's their desire that is freaking her out, it is their methods. You say you "can't see a downside" but you don't know these people, so I am unsure how you can determine there isn't a downside to a relationship with them. At the very least they are pushy and demanding and not very good at communicating their desires in a positive way.
I agree that I don't know
I agree that I don't know these people -- which is why I said that my opinion can only be based on what she shared -- ,and based on what she shared -- I stand by what I said.
Is your homestudy agency
Is your homestudy agency available to help facilitate a discussion? Or is there another agency or counselor who understands issues in adoption? It sounds like perhaps you need a neutral third party to help you iron out some boundaries. Are they aware that they're driving you away with their enthusiasm? Perhaps they really don't understand how it feels to you right now. I'm sorry you're struggling with this and hope that you are all able to come to an understanding that will benefit your relationship -- and your daughter's relationship -- in the future.
Were his parents involved
Were his parents involved initially as far as negotiating the continuing contact agreements, etc or did they just suddenly appear? Is the bdad even aware of his parents actions? Your agreement is with him, not with his parents (unless you did include them initially), and he needs to be brought in to facilitate. I would think that technically you could bring up harassment charges against them, as a very last resort.
Here's what I would personally do
1. Write them a letter explaining that you are not comfortable with, nor did you agree to, the level of contact they are expecting. Lay out exactly what types of communication and the frequency you are willing to engage in with them. Letters, Christmas and Birthday cards, and one visit a year with their son. Be very clear that the relationship is with their son, not with them.
2. Send back/refuse to accept gifts
3. If they join your church or whatever explain the situation to the pastor and perhaps get him/her involved directly.
I wouldn't worry about upsetting bdad, his parents are the ones out of line and he needs to deal with them.
Best of luck!
Why? Why? Why? Why so
Why? Why? Why? Why so extreme? I cannot fathom the need for this extreme and hurtful behaviour based on that the original poster has shared. On what planet is it bad for children to have *more* adults who love them and cherish them and are invested in their well-being and success?!?!
I am unsure what I mentioned
I am unsure what I mentioned that was extreme or hurtful...writing a letter and refusing gifts until some boundries are agreed upon? Although emails and yearly visits are not enough for me personally, that is what the OP and first parents agreed upon, so I think the grandparents should expect the same level of contact as the first parents. From my reading of the OP, there was that nothing was discussed or agreed to with these grandparents. They are intruding and demanding things rather than discussing the situation and coming to some sort of agreement.
Personally we have a very open relationship with our son's grandparents, all of them, but like with all extended family there are ground rules. DS's first parents had some suggestions as well.
Heck, my parents and my husband's sister's family live within 200 yards of us, and they still are polite enough to check with us regarding gifts, and spending time with DS....all family is expected to extend the same courtesy, IMO.
I would have given the same advice if it was the opening poster's own mother or mother-in-law or other family member. Making demands and threatening to stalk people is inappropriate. Expecting a specific type of relationship and communication with a child that hasn't been agreed upon with the parents is inappropriate.
I never said it was bad for children to have more adults who love them, because I don't feel that's true. But I do think it's important to know the people, to know that their presence would be beneficial rather than detrimental. We limit unsupervised time between DS and my husbands parents because they are racists and homophobes, for example. They love and cherish him and are invested in his well being and success, but their views are unacceptable to me and I don't want them expressed to my DS as they are expressed to our nieces and nephews. Should I allow whatever they want, or should I be the parent and determine who my child spends what amount of time with and when?
Our sons' first parents had very good reasons they chose to place him with us rather than accept the offered help of their parents in raising him. Perhaps the OPs daughter's first dad also had good reason not to involve his parents more initially. We don't know.